I’m glad Joe Torre is getting fired…

Not because I think it is a good move, not because it is a bad move. Not because I give a damn about the Yankees, but because I have no idea how good of a manager Joe Torre is. My gut feeling is that Joe Torre isn’t a spectacular head coach, but uh, he has all those damn World Series rings and gets to the playoffs a lot.

I’m not going to say that I could coach those Yankee teams to those wins, because that would be a silly thing to say, but I do think that a whole lot of baseball managers could coach those teams to those wins. Torre has a career .537 winning percent as a manager, but a .607 win percentage in New York.  He hasn’t won a World Series since 2000, and even though he has won the AL East in all of the seasons since then and has only once finished 2nd in the Division, they’ve had talent levels that other teams dream of. Not to mention, when they need to go out and add a player, they at least tend to go out and add some piece, even if it isn’t the perfect piece.

It’s a hard thing to make an argument about, when you attempt to say that a coach or manager with a ton of wins and Championships isn’t quite as talented as people make him out to be. The reason is that anyone who wanted to take the side that Torre is a great and brilliant manager has a ton of stats to throw out there. Which I touched on in the opening.

For starters, though, the American League is the American League. It’s not wrong of me to think less of a manager for success in the AL. They’re pitchers can go longer into games, he doesn’t have to double switch. Doesn’t have to worry about the 8 hitter getting walked because Robinson Cano is just kickin’ it right there in the spot that you would have a pitcher in the real league. National League ball is real. Forgive me if I consider a NL manager winning the World Series as higher in value than when someone does it in the AL. This isn’t exactly new or anything along those lines, just common sense, more or less, but it has to be said.

Arguing Torre’s success as a manager really is an argument you can’t decide. I can say all day that he has all the tools needed given to him whereas other managers scratch and claw and any manager would love to be in his position, but it doesn’t really get folks anywhere. And I’m not saying Torre is a bad manager, just don’t know if he’s good enough to warrant all of this complete shock to him being kicked out of New York. The initial reaction, sure, be surprised, but thinking about it, man has not won a Series in six years with that organization and that is not good enough.  Clearly, he needs a better pitching staff. I personally would axe Brian Cashman before Joe Torre, but I’m not that surprised Torre is gone. In the end, they couldn’t hit in the postseason. They couldn’t do anything.

So, I want to see Torre in the National League with a team like the Cubs  or the Nationals. Just to see if he can do it. To get the complete picture of the type of manager Joe Torre is. Will he do it? I’m not sure. If he wants to spite George Steinbrenner and the Yankees, then I guess there is a chance, but I don’t know much about Torre’s personality.

  1. Mainly because I hate the damn Yankees here is the scenario I’m hoping for: The Yankees go after Willie Randolph, so Torre not wanting to move takes the Mets job. The Mets win a couple of World Series while the Yankees finish behind the Blue Jays. Not plausible at all, but on the off chance it happened I don’t see Stienbrenner surviving it.

  2. lancer said:

    I think i saw on ESPN that in his first six years the combined salary was 52-26 (something around there) with $400+ million payroll and in the last six years it was around 19-22 in the playoffs with $800+ payroll.

    The media continued to stress how difficult a job it is to manage in New York. I agree to some extent with the pressure placed by the boss and the media, but what better situation could you want when the Yankees are spending more money on one player than other teams spend on their entire team. If your going to complain about a dificult enviroment trying coaching the Marlins. Their program spent a whopping $17 million on their roster, which is 8 million less than what Alex Rodriguez makes per year.

    Tore should be fired and so should Cashman. Cashman for making ridiculous contracts with guys coming out of their prime and Torre for still not being able to find a way to win.

  3. savepoker said:

    As a Braves fan, I found some solace in Billy Beane’s Moneyball when he spoke talked about how the playoffs are entirely random. The idea is simply that baseball is a game where any two teams are probably close to a coinflip on any given day, but over the course of the regular season, the little extras come into play and result in a higher winning percentage. But no team, especially in the playoffs, is so significantly better than the other that they “should” win a series, especially a five game series.

    I think the Yankees, much like the Braves of yore, may be a victim of some of this statistical variance. I didn’t have a chance to watch too many of the Yankee games this post-season but it didn’t seem to me like Torre was shitting the bed. Maybe he did.

    The other school of thought seems to be that to win in the playoffs you need scrappy hitting and a good bullpen (neither of which the Yankee’s had this year). Under either notion, Torre shouldn’t be to blame for yet another post-season flop.

    And yes, all this is a cheap way to excuse the Braves 1 out of 14 post-season championships.

  4. I wouldn’t say that Torre shit the bed in the postseason, he did make some questionable lineup moves. I don’t think at this point putting Bernie Williams in the lineup over Gary Sheffeild is a smart move. I realize Bernie had numbers against Kenny Rogers but I think that is out-thinking yourself a little too much. The bullpen and lack of dependable starting pitching was the real demise of the Yankees, but why Cashman isn’t getting more flak i’ll never know.

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